On (Fan) Fiction

[scottishlass]

Almost everyone I know is either heavily involved in one fandom or the other and/or writes fanfiction. May it be for S:AAB, Farscape, LotR, Orli etc. Most of my friends are awesome writers and sometimes I really ask myself why they are not already established writers because I really 'fall' into their fics.
During my time as web archivist for two fanfiction archives (S:AAB FanFic Flightdeck and m.i.t.m.) I have come across a lot of stories and authors. I had the pleasure to see fledgling writers evolve and also established writers to run full circle and become published in real. That is the good side.
The down side is, I have also seen writers ... or so called ones who are too recalcitrant to learn anything about the craft of writing, let alone use beta readers at their disposal :s
Luckily in S:AAB there are some awesome writers, probably because they are more mature and because of the subject matter. Space: Above And Beyond is a well written, well paced and well plotted series with strong characters. The writers of that fandom are the same. Their skill and craft shines through their fiction. It is both a pleasure to read and archive.
Same goes with Farscape, also mature fans and brilliant writing.

Unfortunately, that is not true for other fandoms ... e.g. LotR (though I don't read much of that - I only make exceptions with friends even though they know that if I don't like what I read I tell them and stop reading) and Orlific ... Now, because of the subject matter (OB) this fandom has a lot of teenagers. Nothing wrong with that, but when these teenagers try to write and think they have written something akin to Joyce, Woolf or Hemingway and their work shows that they definitely have not ... then I have a HUGE problem. I really don't care how mature or immature a writer is as long as the story produced is spelled correctly, good grammar, has coherent plotting & sentences, and stays in character. Alas, some writers can't even follow the first two, not to mention coherency or characterization. What is really bad is that I have given up on telling writers that they should at least run a spell checker over their stories or get a beta reader. I know it is bad, but after over a year as archivist for an OB fanfic archive, I somehow have lost my zest for making mediocre writers better. After reading and converting the umpteenth fic with bad spelling, bad grammar, bad plotting and incoherency, I have given up. Literally. One skimmed look over a story and I shrug and up it goes onto the site. No quality check; however no bleeding eyes either :)
At first, I felt really bad about it, but nowadays I have discovered that I really don't have the energy anymore to even bother. Bad, bad Una ... but I can't help it.
Same as a reader ... if I don't like a fic (both fan and pro-fic) from the first two pages, I close it and never open it again. Am I too hard on writers? Too arrogant? Or just too full of useless knowledge from my studies at university?

Do you also have these hard feelings about fanfiction? Or am I way off?

------

Chatting to elfnut ... she is at home because her doctor suspects her to have meningitis. ... Even thought o sound like an old LP on repeat: Elf, LAY DOWN!!! TAKE IT EASY!!!

'Nuff said for now - I should either start on tomorrow's m.i.t.m. update or write a bit more ...

Comments

[sg1padawan.livejournal.com]

At first, I felt really bad about it, but nowadays I have discovered that I really don't have the energy anymore to even bother. Bad, bad Una ... but I can't help it.

Bollocks. You're not bad for doing what you're doing (ie not bothering to check). Heck, I'd recommend you have your head read if you DID continue to do it!

Same as a reader ... if I don't like a fic (both fan and pro-fic) from the first two pages, I close it and never open it again. Am I too hard on writers? Too arrogant? Or just too full of useless knowledge from my studies at university?

I don't think so. I'm exactly the same. But I think I'm even harsher... if it hasn't grabbed me in the first two PARAGRAPHS, it's gone. I don't have time to read shit!fic. There's just too much of it out there. I'd rather be spending my time looking for the GOOD stuff. As hard as it is to find... *sigh*

And I don't think it's arrogance that sees us doing this. I think it's simply because we KNOW how a well-written story should go. We know what they look like, because we've read them before. And really, who wants to read crappy fic when you've tried and read GREAT fic?? That would be like going from sinfully delicious, hot, straight-out-of-the-oven, make-your-mouth-water-with-smell-alone aromatic bread... to a 5 day old, stale, mouldy, crusty loaf. I mean, really. Which would you prefer??

Of course, we could just both be elitist bitches. :D

Do you also have these hard feelings about fanfiction? Or am I way off?

Not way off in the SLIGHTEST. And if you ask the majority of older fans (ie those not teenyboppers), I think you'll find they agree with you. After being involved in fanfiction/fandom since '98, I've seen some BRILLIANT fic produced... and I've seen a lot of dren produced, too. Sadly, most of the OB fic stuff I've skimmed is dren.

But there ARE gems out there which make the searching worthwhile.

My god, I need to stop blabbering at almost-half-past-midnight. LOL

And I second what Una said, elfnut! Lay down and take it easy!!

[scottishlass.livejournal.com]

That would be like going from sinfully delicious, hot, straight-out-of-the-oven, make-your-mouth-water-with-smell-alone aromatic bread... to a 5 day old, stale, mouldy, crusty loaf. I mean, really. Which would you prefer??
Definitely the first !!! And I love the way you describe that .. gosh I'm feeling peckish now - I think I have to snurch something out of the fridge soon BEFORE I go shopping otherwise it will cause havoc on my bank account :)

There are definitely gems out there, but they are so hard to find. Hence the recommendations on m.i.t.m. .. what surprised me for the current awards that the teenybopper fics didn't even get nominated, only the really well written fics were nominated and got onto the short list. But the readers on m.i.t.m. are probably older than the usual fic lot, so they know quality when they see/read it.

Though I have to admit my studies at university have changed my perception on how to read any fic completely. Pre-university I read a story and enjoyed it, never consciously detecting the grammatical or spelling errors. But once I got to know the craft of writing and how conscientious a writer has to be about his/her work, boy-o, it is getting more difficult each day to just 'fall' through a book like I did as a kid or young adult. I even detect weak plotting and stuff in my fave author's work from time to time when I read through a passage and my mind goes: Uh-oh, either the editor did that wrong, or the author should have used a different tense/word or is way off in his/her characterization/description. That is sometimes really annoying and can distract enormously :)
I'm glad I'm not alone in this thinking :) And it is not surprising that you'd agree with me, my twin sister in spirit :)
Sleep tight and just think of this ... THANK GOD IT'S FRIDAY AGAIN tomorrow :)

[sg1padawan.livejournal.com]

Definitely the first !!! And I love the way you describe that .. gosh I'm feeling peckish now

LOL! It has that effect... after I finished typing that, I had to go and get something to eat because it made me hungry. *g*

There are definitely gems out there, but they are so hard to find. Hence the recommendations on m.i.t.m. ..

Exactly. And believe me, I'm thankful for the recs on MITM. I set up an actual reader's recs page at the WRFA back when I was running it... I'm not sure if the recs section is still up and running. But it was a GREAT place to find good stories. And something interesting? A lot of the stories that were recommended, were rec'd multiple times by different people. THOSE you could tell were the gems. :)

what surprised me for the current awards that the teenybopper fics didn't even get nominated

THANK YOU, GOD!!! *bows down low*

I'm glad I'm not alone in this thinking :) And it is not surprising that you'd agree with me, my twin sister in spirit :)

Hee! Glad to find another like mind! *hugs*

Hope you have a lovely rest of the weekend, m'dear. *mwah*

[dragonamara.livejournal.com]

*pokes head in*
*looks around*

came here from sez's journal ^_^

Same as a reader ... if I don't like a fic (both fan and pro-fic) from the first two pages, I close it and never open it again. Am I too hard on writers? Too arrogant? Or just too full of useless knowledge from my studies at university?

I say hell no! I'm with Sez, I can ususally tell if it's a shit!fic after the first 2 paragraphs. I don't have the time to read some drivel where the writer doesn't know the simplest grammer rules (i.e. there/thier/they're) or 'what' suddenly turns to 'wut'. Makes me want to claw my eyes out and soak them in alcohol. Or, maybe I'm one of the elietist bitches ^_^ Either way, my time is not going to be wasted on shit!fic. I don't have a lot of downtime, so I'm going to make good use of what I have.

Do you also have these hard feelings about fanfiction? Or am I way off?

*phft* You are most certainly not way off. I've been a part of a few fandoms since about 2000 (even though Orlifandom is the first I've ever completed a story for), and I think fan fic has taken a turn for the worst. There are litereally mountains of shit!fic to wade through for the fewer and fewer gems that are out there. It's like anyone who can punch a few keys fancies themselves the next Aelora, or the next Fictionlyn or whatever big fandom writers there are out there. Sad thing is, they're not! But they have some little buttkissing friends who won't tell them that they need a beta or that they just need to strp away from the keyboard and stick to the reading end of it.

Just random babble here: I have a minor in English and I've been an avid reader since I could read. I don't know if that has made me jaded in the world of amateur writers, but I refuse to read anything that has netspeak in it (unless there's some sort of chat in the story, and even then...) I have had so many people want me to read their stories for them and kiss their butt and tell them it's good. Umm, sorry baby, I don't have the time. But you do need to crack open a grammer book. No, don't rely on spell or grammar check on Word, it doesn't know the difference between a sneeze and a wet fart.

Anyone wanna point me in the direction of that fresh from the oven, aromatic bread fic? I'm praying there's more out there than what I've already read.

Damn me and my voracious reading appetite.

And Una...so sorry about the long rant in here...really didn't mean to go on like that ^_^ But keep up the good work on m.i.t.m. I love that site and frequent it at work.

[scottishlass.livejournal.com]

Hi dragonamara :)

I absolutely agree. So we are already three elitist bitches
I already tried to get rid of really badly written fic, like netspeak etc. with our submission rules, but a lot slips past me and Nedra. Because we don't have the time to read through every new fic that is submitted to us (and we would probably die of brain tissue softening with grey matter leaking out of our ears).

The reason why I brought this up is that I rejected two fics recently and the writers started to stir shit via email. It got me thinking that I might be too harsh, but then again reading your and Sez' comments I am confident again that I did the right thing.
Perhaps I'm even a bit more sensitive especially to grammar and tenses as I am not a native speaker of English. At my school you had the grammar rammed down your throat with a hot poker, even though it didn't help a lot in my case ... blame it on my Scottish relatives :) I can't understand why ppl only want to have reviews .. and positive reviews at that, and over all that ass licking they never evolve as a writer. I had a fight over this issue with two writers from the site, I told them that they could even become better writers if they used a good beta reader who might tighten up their fics a bit because they are so damn long (and becoming tedious after a while) ... the results were they left a beta list because they couldn't 'bear a full blown beta'. Hello? The harsher a beta is, the more a beta reader nitpicks the more I get better as a writer. Give ten reviews of 'Well done, Una, it's brilliant, wow, good I want more' and I would trade all of them in for one honest 'Una, you lost it in chapter two and never got back on track because of this and this and that reason.'

[dragonamara.livejournal.com]

Give ten reviews of 'Well done, Una, it's brilliant, wow, good I want more' and I would trade all of them in for one honest 'Una, you lost it in chapter two and never got back on track because of this and this and that reason.'

amen! I would trade most of my reviews of "plz write more! It's great!!!11' for a few 'while very enjoyable, the cursing is a bit much but understandable and you could really use some fleshing out in chapters X, Y and Z.'

I would rather have an honest review picking my stuff apart piece by piece than a general 'it's good'.

Show, don't tell ^_^

And hi Una! ^__^

[sg1padawan.livejournal.com]

Give ten reviews of 'Well done, Una, it's brilliant, wow, good I want more' and I would trade all of them in for one honest 'Una, you lost it in chapter two and never got back on track because of this and this and that reason.'

A-FREAKING-MEN.

Hit the nail on the head with that one. I'd much rather be told exactly what's WRONG with my fic (and let's be honest... there is no 100% PERFECT fic out there) than have multitudes of people tell me "U rock so hard! More plz!!!11!" Ugh. Spare me.

[http://users.livejournal.com/_sweetangel/]

Hi Una,

Am I too hard on writers? Too arrogant? Or just too full of useless knowledge from my studies at university? Do you also have these hard feelings about fanfiction? Or am I way off?

No, you're not too hard on writers or too arrogant. You like quality, quality is way better than quantity. I can tell you by the first two paragraphs if a fanfic is great or if it is only "shit". I do prefer excellent grammar, good spelling, coherent story, interesting events. Am I too hard to pleased?

In OrliFic, there is a lot of... "shit". So many little teenage girls (I'm not mean with them, I'm just telling something that I've noticed in the past few months) are writing incoherent stories involving Orli but I think they should keep their writings and not trying to share them on archives (such as m.i.t.m.). In those precious sites, quality is needed.

Am I elitist? I don't think so... I like to read and to write. Those two things are my passions, they are part of myself and I can't appreciate bad writings... I know that I'm younger than you, Una, but it does not matter. I'm feeling exactly the same...

[elfnut.livejournal.com]

"The harsher a beta is, the more a beta reader nitpicks the more I get better as a writer."

Dear Una,

God knows that I am as new in fanfiction writing, reading, archiving business as many others (yeah, didn't go near the internet before the year 2000) but I have also taken the live and let fester attitude towards many authors and stories I come across in the 3 fandoms I still frequent.

I have to say that it was you and SD who got me into writing (for which I will be forever grateful!) and taught me a lot of the small fraction I know about writing. Still, I am now a full fledged Beta-addict (and addict to my betas as well, huggles Viv and Una) and I have been and keep on learning. best example is my own fanfiction. In 14 months of work you see teh evolution into another person writing the same story.

Anyway, I think that writing and going public implies you make yourself vulnerable to criticism, but also open to learn from your failures and improve your writing and yourself, as a person.

And no, I would never dream of going pro. But, heck, one puts such a lot of time, love and effort into what one writes, that I think we should at least try to do it the best possible.

Hmmm, english is a tough language ....

Love,
Elf

[scottishlass.livejournal.com]

Oh wow, Elf ... you are putting a lot of responsibility on my shoulders. I think you would have started publishing your fics eventually without me bugging you :)
You have a lot of novels inside you :)